That's the degree of submission they expect isn't it. How degrading. It's inhumane. And to outline the option of legal separation only after extreme abuse.
Sorry you went through that Shimmy and that your children saw it.
Last night on ABC TV here in Australia there was a show interviewing exCult members, quick snippets from about 8 people on various questions about life in each respective cult. Unquestioning obedience no matter how bizarre the demands was the main common thread - and ostracism for not obeying. Often children and women endured beatings. It's fabulous to see these people now free, they've risen above it and able to laugh about much of it.
Post by Thehotone4u2 on Sept 1, 2018 15:32:49 GMT -7
I was in two seriously abusive relationships. The first one was a JW, the second one was not, she was mentally ill.
In both instances, I was made out to be the evil villain by the wives when I decided to end it. In both instances, the elders had given me seriously bad, non-biblical advice repeatedly, which was framed as coming from Jah himself by them. In every single instance, they told me what to do and threatened me with "congregation action" if I didn't comply. I have several threads on this site about that, so I won't go on with it. The fact is that what the society says is ok, and what to do is hardly ever what the elders say. The fact that we are supposed to have no access to their rule book, and the society backs them up no matter what, means that nothing will be solved.
Confucious saying: In order for a man to change is mind, first he must save his face. ! My JW wife did just that. She was a cheater. Whenever I went to leave she would get pregnant. I ended up with 4 kids that way. But first, she would call her father, who was a certified sociopath, and send him over to beat me up! Then he would call the police and blame me for it! Wow! I finally filed for divorce after I found out she had been cheating with my own brother since the start of the marriage. Just like clockwork, her father tried to kill me and burned the house down, and blamed it on me. I was never so happy to get away from that bitch in all my entire life! True to form, the elders decided it was all my fault, and told me I had to go back. Pfft! I hear rumors to this day that they're still seeing each other!
Which is a good segue to the second portion of my post.
In the real world, existentialism rules the day; We most generally have to sleep in the bed we make. Some people are pretty good at slithering their way out of it though. But, in the organization, the fact that we're not allowed to make statements or decisions in our own best interest without an elder's approval, and in line with their ever changing rules, means that there is a ready made, easily identified method to circumvent the consequences.
So, how does an abuser get away with his abuse? Claim it's the abuser's fault! Once the elders, who have no training, no education, and no idea what's going on in the home, make a recommendation, it's final. They most generally believe the first person that speaks. If more evidence comes forward later, they will ignore it. Because THEY don't want to APPEAR as if they've changed their minds! In the end, you're stuck with the "official" story, whether or not it's true.
My jehovamom died a couple of years ago. On Halloween! Pfft!! She had been a outwardly appearing paragon of virtue for decades. One child and several grandchildren at Bethel, a regular pioneer for decades. Had her story of escaping an abusive and opposing husband printed in the WT! After her death, I came into possession of her files.
Come to find out, she had never been married to my step-father! ( I was 6) They were only together for about a year, but it was after she was baptized! She had never filed for divorce from my father! She had claimed that she had filed for a "legal separation" from my step-father, but when I went to the courthouse, there was no record of it! When queried about the place of marriage, she "can't remember"! She had been living a lie for better than 50 years!
Mind you, my step father had been a Nazi in WWII. He was indeed an opposer, and abusive. My mother had me all set to go call the police at the next door neighbor's house when she told him to leave. Now that I'm an adult, and having been around that block myself, I absolutely don't blame her for living that lie.
I remember the intense interest the elders had in the situation when he left. At that time, one was df'd for a minimum of a year for an adulterous marriage. They issued a huge amount of edicts and bad advice, and I heard a lot of it, being a little kid on my mother's finger.
When she was alive, and I eventually figured it out, I was mad. How dare she lecture me on morals? Now, I understand completely that she was doing exactly what she needed to do to survive in the only support group she had.
In the real world, there would have been no consequences if she left an abuser, no matter what the situation. She could have gone on with her life no problem. In the organization, however, all eyes are on every minute! When it became necessary to lie to survive, a tangled web began to be wove, and it became necessary for her to keep that facade until the day she died. I consider that tragic.
I'm now at peace with it though. I can't say I would have done anything differently if faced with the same circumstances.
If you are a witness trapped in an abusive relationship, male or female, just get out of it now! This is your life. The elders have no skin in the game and are only interested in their version of the best interests of the congregation's reputation. They aren't interested in your reasons. Make a new life! Another day with an abuser is another day wasted on what could be a rewarding life for yourself and your children.
I'm happy to report that today is my 11 year wedding anniversary to a truly wonderful wife. If I had it all to do over again, I would have left those marriages far sooner than I did.
Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to god!-Lenny Bruce (1925-1966)
Post by Thehotone4u2 on Jan 4, 2019 3:09:30 GMT -7
So it's one o'clock in the morning right now, January 4.
Why is this relevant you ask? This is the anniversary of my first marriage. The one to the evil JW wife who couldn't keep her pants up and kept me DF'd with a rumor for 17 years. Pfft! But that's not the subject of this post, so moving on.
Every year, for years, my ex calls me on our anniversary! Usually she wants to get back together. Um,...NO!!!!! There really is something very sick about this! Honestly!
In years past I would just hang up on her, or tell her there's no way in hell, move on bitch! But this just angers her, and she then seeks revenge for a while. You know, blowing up the phone, police visits, calls from people accusing me of things, trying to get me fired from whatever job I have, calls to my wife, etc. She thinks threats, violence and false accusations will end up manipulating me into dropping my normal life and running back into the cesspool! Pfft!!! I carried a firearm for years. Even now my house is a fortress.
She's usually drunk. Sometimes she's carries on a lucid, normal conversation, saying stuff like do you remember when. But most of the time she's just angry. One time she told me "I'm not speaking to you!" I said, "ok, so why did you call me then?" She said, "Because I'm telling you I'm not speaking to you!"
About 10 years ago I changed my number and didn't hear from her for a couple of years. Then one of the kids spilled the beans and the craziness started again. The last couple of years, I got to hear more about how I'm violent crazy apostate bastard from one of my sons. Convenient how that ugly religion pops it's ugly head up at this time of year! She is the main reason I decided to take a break from my normal life and attend law school!
I'm determined, of course, to never be manipulated by her again. Hm. NO, writing a post about it at 1 AM does not constitute manipulation!!! Just shut up!!
Every day people are straying away from the church and going back to god!-Lenny Bruce (1925-1966)
Post by pavlovianmutt on Jan 5, 2019 9:13:55 GMT -7
If you follow to the link, If Marriage is at the Breaking Point, it has a quote from a study, Lucia. "Today I can say that Jehovah knows how to save marriages in crisis because his teachings help mates learn how to feel esteem for each other. It is not true, as some assert, that Jehovah’s Witnesses divide families. In my case, exactly the opposite was true.” Who uses the phrase, "As Some Assert"???? This appears to be wholesale fabrication. How extreme does physical abuse need to be? Is regular abuse acceptable? The topic Rendering the Marriage Due... It is nice that now they say the focus is on giving rather than demanding. I regret the endless demanding I did. That being said did anyone see anywhere in the article the phrase, 'If need be, feel free to seek professional advice from competent Therapists?' I did not, just more praying, more reliance on untrained Elders and more patience. When paired with Paul's overt misogyny and near revulsion for sexual passion the article seems to come off more like a 'buyers beware' then a loving arrangement from JeHOOOvah. (Idiotic pronunciation with extreme contempt intended.)
Thehotone4u2: I made a short post about what I do in the lounge several months ago, called "What do you do for a living?"
Jan 4, 2019 3:22:09 GMT -7
Thehotone4u2: Wow! I found out a couple of days ago that our friend, MarlboroBarbie was in the hospital with an operation! She told me to post here that she's now home and well, and resting comfortably, and sends her love for everyone on the forum! Get well Barbie!
Jan 5, 2019 19:48:14 GMT -7
Shimmerjet: Hotone thanks for posting this, See ya soon MB
Jan 7, 2019 15:07:54 GMT -7
Shimmerjet: Are you guys in USA ok with this shut down?
Jan 7, 2019 15:09:03 GMT -7
Queequeg: Gotta keep out all the damn New Zealanders trying to get over our border! It's not our fault you're country is a sh**hole!
Jan 11, 2019 14:30:38 GMT -7
Shimmerjet: LOL YOU WISH!
Jan 11, 2019 14:36:21 GMT -7